So that it's not. That's how they show the emotion. So, instead of the crying and the being upset, it's more of the anger. It that's because they're suppressing that emotion. And when he said that, I was like, oh shit, he is. That's absolutely what's happening, right, that they, you're, you're not. I can't imagine, I can't cry, I can't show emotion. That would be weak and you're feeling frustrated. And then what does it turn into? Anger and rage.
Speaker 2:
Everything just clicked for me right now. It's just like light bulb.
Speaker 1:
Really.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's it, wow, I've. Because I I've dated men that are not. You know, they're not. I wouldn't say that they're all toxic right, they're not all toxic but instead of having, you know, an emotional response that I thought would be appropriate, it was anger. I said to some of them like you've got an anger issue, you're angry, right. And again, my background and coming from a place of an abusive relationship, you know, way back when all of that, and so I've got that boundary and I'm kind of like super self-protecting here. Well, no, I understand it. Now they were upset for some other reason and that's. I mean, that's hard to navigate. And again, like, what are men taught? Talking about their emotions and feelings is a weakness. So we've got a lot of men that don't go to therapy.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, and just to, I don't know if you know this about me. I used to do the. So when I was doing therapy, I was when I was a therapist a former therapist I was doing a lot, a lot of mandated anger management groups with men. Oh yeah, oh my God, yeah, uh-huh, I was doing therapy. I was when I was a therapist, a former therapist, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:
Uh-huh, and I actually enjoyed it. It was, I was up for the challenge because, you know, he, I think you know, when they see me and they think, oh, this girl, this little girl, they think that they're going to like, try to run me over when I'm pretty tough. I'm, I was really tough with these guys and some of them were, so the majority of it was mandated Talking about your feelings, talking about emotions. Well, I had to be very careful, also because I didn't want to trigger any of them either. With you know, you got to give them the respect of the boundaries as well.
Speaker 1:
And it's group, it's group, it's not one on one. And I will say, when you're in the group, you know, all these men have their armors on, they're not going to shed their damn armors. Now, when I did it one on one and I did have counseling with men one on one, floodgates were open. Well, yeah, floodgates were open, armor was off and they said things to me that I didn't even want. Oh, they shared a lot of things and they would say and then I'll never forget, one of them went oh God, I've been holding that for so long, I feel so good and he was, he was me.
Speaker 2:
I was not ready for that. Oh my, what happened.
Speaker 1:
I'm not ready for this, please. I felt terrible because he was so relieved and he was like, oh, that he was holding this secret for years. And I was just like, oh my God, oh my God, what? And so so, and you know, these guys were burly, burly men, like lumberjacks, like a man's man, the Vikings Okay, yes, the stereotypical labor construction type man, and they're sharing, and then the floodgates would fall and the floodgates would open and sharing these things with me. And I was just like, and I remember, like my face, and he even said are you okay?